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Old 11-09-2007   #1
slink Female
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raw cheese enzymes

HI everyone, greenbunny i think you may have some info here

I have been eating a diet that is 100 % raw vegetables
PLUS the addition of cooked meat for protein and flax oil for fat

today at work i knew i was really calorie deficient and ran downstairs to our health food store for a snack

i found some cultured raw milk goat cheese AND THEN i had this awesome raw experience

i immediately came back into my body in a deeper way than i have been in quite sometime, i know that some of this is grounding from eating such a calorie/fat/protein rich food and some of it is the good vibration of the food itself

AND THEN i had another great raw experience....i pooped....i felt all sorts of good digestive action right afer eating it and within a half hour i eliminated....it has been kind of slow the last couple of weeks

anyway all sorts of subtle things fell into place and my question is......because i have been eating COOKED meat are there SPECIFIC/DIFFERENT enzymes that would have been in the dairy that i needed to properly digest the meat i have been eating but have not been getting from my greens etc
thanks, slinky
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Old 11-09-2007   #2
greenbunny Undisclosed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slink
HI everyone, greenbunny i think you may have some info here

I have been eating a diet that is 100 % raw vegetables
PLUS the addition of cooked meat for protein and flax oil for fat

today at work i knew i was really calorie deficient and ran downstairs to our health food store for a snack

i found some cultured raw milk goat cheese AND THEN i had this awesome raw experience

i immediately came back into my body in a deeper way than i have been in quite sometime, i know that some of this is grounding from eating such a calorie/fat/protein rich food and some of it is the good vibration of the food itself

AND THEN i had another great raw experience....i pooped....i felt all sorts of good digestive action right afer eating it and within a half hour i eliminated....it has been kind of slow the last couple of weeks

anyway all sorts of subtle things fell into place and my question is......because i have been eating COOKED meat are there SPECIFIC/DIFFERENT enzymes that would have been in the dairy that i needed to properly digest the meat i have been eating but have not been getting from my greens etc
thanks, slinky


I haven't had such a good laugh sink Double Helix talked about her ogre in the mayonnaise factory!

"AND THEN i had another great raw experience....i pooped"
How fabulous is that line?!!!!!

Here's my hit on your experience Slink:
To answer your question: It is my understanding that each raw food has exactly the enzymes within it necessary to digest that particular food. The enzymes can be subtlely different say between brocolli and cabbage but which both include some version of amylase (the enzyme necessary to digest carbohydrates). The main enzyme necessary to digest the large amount of protein in meat is protease and the main enzyme in milk products is lactase. That is why many people supplement their cooked food intake with a general enzyme supplement that has all these general kinds of enzymes in them to cover most foods, but it will never be exact to the particular food like eating that food raw. So...... I highly doubt that the fabulous effects that you felt from eating your cheese was from the shot of lactase you got in that cheese as it most raw foods have just enough enzymes as are necessary to digest them within them and there usually isn't much leftover for other foods as far as I know and besides, most of the enzymes in cheese would not be the enzymes necessary to digest meat.

What I think happened based on my experience is that you got some nutrients that you needed along with some dense food! I had to give up raw once not too long ago before adding enough cheese, fish and egg to my diet because my husband was sure that I just wasn't getting enough calories or protein to keep me in my body and I think that he was right.

Are you aware of Macrobiotics. It's a whole diet based upon the Oriental principle of Yin and Yang. Yang foods are heavier and more solid. My husband who had been into this form of eating years ago said to me recently that it made sense that I would be drawn to eating meat and fish and eggs (all of which are so yang) when my diet became much more yin when I ate so much salad and fruit. There is something to be said for this for me I believe and perhaps is for you too.

I must say though, that digesting cooked fish and cheese is very hard on my digestion. These substances take a long time to go through the digestive tract compared to vegetables and especially fruit as it is, but to eat them without their enzymes intact is a real chore. They are easy to digest and necessary for me raw and a hardship on me cooked.

It sounds to me like your body was getting up and giving you every kind of communication that it could how happy it was at your discovery. That is so very cool it makes me smile.

Now, here is another aspect of what you chose to eat. Raw goat yogurt is not only a raw dairy product but a live food in even more ways. It is filled with live bacteria that your digestive tracts needs to function correctly. If this was out of balance (which it is in most Americans I believe) you going and giving your body those good bacteria might have aided tremendously in your intestinal tract's ability to process is contents. Raw goat yogurt is in my opinion a raw food on steroids - super alive!

One more thing - someone here at one point was talking about amazing research on the combination of raw goat yogurt and flax oil and how it allowed the cell walls to become pliable again. I believe it is in our thread on raw dairy. Check it out. Since you eat raw flax oil and it might have been just circling around your blood stream whaiting for the substance it needed to be useful, that might have also been a factor in your feeling so good from it. Could be!

But the important thing is that you found something that was so good for you.

Congratulatoins, happy day, hurrah!

Greenbunny

Last edited by greenbunny : 11-09-2007 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 11-09-2007   #3
slink Female
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oh greenb you are such a fountain....i do have a lot of experience with macrobiotics (i do practice chinese medicine after all )

anyway, i agree, i need the yang!

i have been reading georges oshawa's "book of judgement" lately and i want to share 2 favorite quick things of his that i love

all disease is caused by one of 2 things lack of gratitude or lack of faith

and at some point he says something like...."and that is caused by overeating, which is money, which is violence"

that gave me shivers

you are awesome. got to go to work

did you get the glucobalance post???
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Old 11-09-2007   #4
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Hey Slink,

So you are are a TCM practitioner??? Very Cool. Had no idea. Is your focus acupuncture, herbs, body work? Love TCM. It's one of my favorite hobbies.

It has been my opinion for years that Oshawa was on target but swung a little too far in the yang direction over all and missed out completely on the raw thing. I've met lots of people that do great on macro at the beginning as a stage in detoxing/blanacing and then do need to take the next step of adding raw but don't realize it and start to feel un-well again. It's like the body says, "Hey, you're getting the idea that I need to detox and need more nutrtients, this is great, let's keep on going! You seem to only take me seriously when I'm sick so - here's another hint."

Hey, I noticed that I mis-read your first post and thought that you had yogurt when you said cheese. I wonder if this was an intuition that you might do well on raw goat yogurt???? If you can't get that then do you supplement with refrigerated good bacteria for your gut?

No, I haven't seen the glucobalance post. I will have to try and remember what thread that conversation was in. Do you remember off hand? Thanks so much for remembering that I was interesting in knowing about it.

Cheerio,
Greenbunny
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Old 11-09-2007   #5
slink Female
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hi gb

i totally agree with the macro thing, the body is so happy to not have any sugar....he is pretty serious about how he eliminates yin fruit and vegetables and uses so much salt to contract the yin

i practice both acupuncture and tcm herbology that i studied at bastyr....i remember your story about a "clinic in seattle" and i wondered if that was bastyr. i am also now studying with a 5 element practitioner on the east coast

yogurt is way to much sugar for me, kefir is a little better and i loooooove it
i think i may try to learn how to make culutred raw cottage cheese

i use probiotic like crazy BUT have been out for about a week

i have been using threelac, and hmf
do you have ones you like

the gluco balance post is the "hypoglycemia/parasite...." post
if you put in hypoglycemia in the search bar it is the first one to come up.....i also listed my lab results there to see what you think

xoxo slink
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Old 11-10-2007   #6
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Yes, Bastyr!!! That was it. Did you get a degree there? Where on the east coast are you? That's where I'm from originally. Are you doing a mentoring thing? That must be much fun learning that approach. It's so great to talk with someone who understands that world view AND raw foods. They seem to go together logically to me but to most TCM folks the Great Ones have said no raw veggies, no fruit so they scoff at the idea that raw foods can be balanced. Nice to have a compatriate!

I can see how lactose in goat milk yogurt could be too much sugar for you. I only would eat a tiny bit at once with the flax seed oil when I did it - but I have to admit that I like and feel better from the cheese anyway.

There really is no reason to eat yogurt if you supplement. It's almost impossible to get enough good bacteria from yogurt any way unless you eat truckloads. it has been so many years since I've supplemented good bacteria that I'm afraid that I have no opinion on those products any more except that they must be refrigerated according to recently studies. There are probably all sorts of great new ones out in the last 15 years.

Yeah, if you get rid of the tremendous amount of meat and fat that Americans eat you'd better get rid of the extreme yin stuff too.... but what most Americans use to balance the extreme yang is really really extreme yin like icecream. Some fruit balanced with some root vegetables or miso is so much more middle than he gives it credit for especially if the fruit isn't cold.

The other thing that isn't stressed enough is season and location. Here in Central Texas in the middle of summer, if you spend time outdoors I can't see how any amount of fruit could imbalance you with the scorching, extreme heat of the sun!

Sometimes I would over eat (drink) really cold smoothies until I started to shake from the cold before going out into the sun to work in the garden and it was great balance. I'm one of the only people I know that is comfortable in the summer here because I eat so yin in the summer in the middle of the day. I won't go yang until the evening when the heat lifts.

I'll go find that gluco balance info now!

Thanks Slink,
Greenbunny
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Old 11-10-2007   #7
slink Female
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hi green bunny

i did get my degrees from bastyr and i am still in the northwest practicing in a little town called anacortes close to the san juan islands. i am mentoring a few times a year with lonny jarrett a practitioner in western mass....mass is actually my original birth place..

the whole no raw tcm thing has been of great interest to me as well since i am now feeling so well on raw foods

i think that sometimes people forget to put the original works into context of china 5,000 years ago!!! can we even imagine what it took to cook all of your food back then!! i think the idea of cooked food could possibly be as medicinal/therapeutics for someone who is incredibly compromised and couldn't break down anything.....who knows....maybe we are reacting to raw so well because of all of the years of horrible modification of food.

i do know that in china grains were really only eaten as a way to fill the stomach up AFTER a meal because there was not enough meat and veg. during times of starvation

it is still the same today. the chinese people will typically sit down and eat just meat and vegetables and then at the end of the meal woof down a bowl or 2 of rice so that they stay full

we are the ones who have done the whole "stir fry" adaptation
the same goes for the tibetan people, they consider it a high state of health/spiritual development to reach when you can live without grains in the diet

all that said my experience is that the lightness and expansion of vegetarianism does complement serious meditation
and meat's contraction does complement a highly physical lifestyle

my good friend had a hip replacement surgery this week and i have been bringing her green smoothies in the hospital
this morning i had ONE SIP of a tangerine/blackberry/honey mix and i have been bloated and craving sweets all day.....crazy

i did go for sashimi for lunch and want to ask your opinion....do you think they boil the octopus first???????

love chatting with you, slink!
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Old 11-10-2007   #8
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I went to school in Western Mass. We seem to have quite a bit in common. These truly are interesting and good conversations Sllink.

What you said about thinking about acupuncture in it's social and historical sense was fascinating! I often think about how white rice took over the culinary landscape originally because only the very rich could afford it so it got all sorts of good association with wealth and prestige even though it was nutritionally inferior. Fat people also used to be revered because they were the obviously wealthy. What you are saying about filling up on rice at the end of the meal makes sense and even fits with what I have noticed in Japanese restaurants even today. It's certainly how I feel in a Japanese restaurant to tell you the truth! To eat just sashimi and vegetables is only available to the richest of people if to be done regularly.

As for boiling octopus I have to say that I have no idea because I understand that octopuses are highly intelligent and evolved creatures like the mammals so I wouldn't eat an octopus just like I wouldn't eat a dolphin or whale.

Is there any place that you can buy sushi grade frozen fish to keep in the freezer and take out to eat when you need it?

The ironic thing is that I get one of my favorite raw meals at the Texas Land and Cattle Steak house because they have a fabulous salad there that has a big ahi tuna steak on it. Ahi tuna seems to be real big around here and many restaurants have it. I explain how I really want sushi so barely touch the thing to the grill and leave off all the seasoning. Most places do this for me and then I can get a big hunk of raw fish on salad.

The sashimi comes in such little pieces and is so expensive that I can't do it much. It's a good place to go with cooked food eaters though because at least there is a little something there for me.

You know, the one thing that I do not agree with you on Slink is that meat (in terms of fish I mean) does not compliment a meditative lifestyle. I meditate more than just about anyone I know and when I did the most mediation and energetic work was the time that I wanted the most protein and fat. Many people turn to sugar to keep them in their bodies. I crave the yang foods the most when I am doing the most yin activities. When I am out digging all day in my garden, sure I will want a big meal... but I usually want carbohydrates more than protein.

I guess think of complement more in the terms of balance like opposite colors are complementary whereas I know most people think of complimentary as being similar so as to make the affect of meditation more extreme. Instead of wanting something to exaggerate the experience, I want food that won't interfere with the process, yet will help to keep me stable in my physical form. I do agree with you however regarding cooked meat like chicken and beef and pork. These foods are probably what you ??re referring to I would imagine. Raw fish however doesn't seem to interfere in the slightest however and nuts seem to be absolutely necessary for me when I spend a lot of time in meditative states. It's often the first thing that I crave to eat.

Well, gotta go now,
Greenbunny
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