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Old 11-13-2007   #1
slink Female
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raw carnivore on the planet

ok so i took the plunge.....i have been eating 90-95% raw since july and have absolutely loved it EXCEPT that at this stage of my life I really feel that i like what meat provides for me

i was a vegetarian for 15 years and just started eating meat 3-4 years ago, no beef or pork.... i eat lamb, buffalo and chicken only

so during the last month i had been adding cooked meat to my raw diet and feeling a lot better energy

this week while preparing to cook some ground buffalo, i sampled a few little bites of the pink stuff, probably 1-2 teaspoons

pretty dramatic for me

last night i ate about 1-2 ounces of raw lamb burger and this morning another 2-3 ounces

i can't say my mind is not a little freaked out by this but in terms of the effect on my body and mental state while i am digesting etc
all i can say is that it feels like something that was wrong is now right.

looking for anyone with experience here to discuss this with
i am open to both pros and cons
( as long as they are not totally negative emotionally)

thanks
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Old 11-13-2007   #2
greenbunny Undisclosed
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Pros:

You feel good.
- You seem to need meat.
- Raw meat still has enzymes.
- Other people do it and feel good.
- If you get what you need including protein your immune system will be stronger to combat any bugs you might get from the meat.

Cons:
- Humans are not designed to eat raw meat. We don't have the stomach acids and antibacterial agents that carnivores do in our guts.
- Raw meat can have some really nasty bugs in it that can make you really sick fast and hard.
- It's not easy to get rid of parasites and bacteria ingested from meat.
- Karma. The same for cooked as raw.
- The only raw meat I eat is fish. The Japanese eat raw fish all the time and feel great from it. What exactly is the difference between raw fishes and raw cows, buffalos, lambs etc. if they are very very fresh? I don't know! Does anyone? Why is it socially acceptable to eat raw fish and not raw buffalo? They are both flesh.

That's the way I see your experiment.

Greenbunny
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Old 11-13-2007   #3
Double Helix Undisclosed
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Quote:
looking for anyone with experience here to discuss this with
i am open to both pros and cons
( as long as they are not totally negative emotionally)

Hi Slink,

Since you are open to pros and cons I thought it would be okay to respond.

My #1 concern would be the bacteria factor, and how clean the meat is you are eating. When carnivores in the wild eat meat, they are getting it (usually) freshly killed.

Carnivores are killing it with their own claws. I feel biologically our hands are designed to easily pick and eat plant food and not designed to kill animals. Also our teeth are different from a carnivores, they are not designed to rip the flesh of an animal, even our canines/eye teeth are nowhere near the shape of a carnivores for ripping off flesh and gnawing on bones.

Also their stomach acid is a much higher acidic level than humans, which can handle flesh foods. Our digestive juices are much more alkaline and more approriate to handle plant foods.

From a spiritual standpoint, we were originally given food from a garden, and our ancestors lived much longer when eating a plant food diet.

Some more thoughts on humans vs. carnivores:

walking
humans = two legged
carnivores = walk on all fours (except carnivorous birds)

tails
carnivores have tails

tongues
true carnivores have rough tongues
non carnivores and humans have smooth tongues

claws
carnivores have claws for ripping
humans have fingernails

opposable thumbs
humans are designed with opposable thumbs for grasping and collecting a plant based meal
carnivorous animals with claws designed to grasp their prey/meal

births
humans usually have single births
carnivores usually give birth to litters

colon/intestines
humans have colons 12 times the length of our torsos - allowing for slow absorption of sugars and other water-borns nutrients from fruits and plant foods.
carnivores have a digestive tract of 3 times the length of its torso, necessary to avoid rotting or decomposition of flesh inside the animal.

sleep
humans spend roughly two-thirds of every 24 hour cycle actively awake.
Carnivores typically sleep and rest from 18-20 hours per day, sometimes more.

microbial tolerance
most carnivores can digest microbes that would be deadly for humans (I feed my dog raw meat and she never has problems)

perspiration
humans sweat from pores on their entire body.
carnivores sweat from the tongue only.

vision
our sense of vision responds to full-spectrum color.
carnivores, in general, do not typically see in color.

vitamin C
carnivores manufacture their own vitamin C.
Humans must get it from their food.

jaw movement
our ability to grind food is unique to plant eaters.
Meat eaters have no lateral mokvement in their jaws

dental formula
mammologists use a system called the "dental formula" to describe the arrangment of teeth in each quadrant of the jaws of an animal's mouth. This refers to the number of incisors, canines, and molars in each of the four quadrants. Starting from the center and moving outward, our formula, and that of most anthropoids, is 2/1/5. The dental formula for carnivores is 3/1/5-to-8

teeth
The molars of a carnivore are pointed and sharp. Ours are primarily flat, for mashing food. Our "canine" teeth bear no resemblance to true fangs. Nor do we have a mouth full of them as a true carnivore does.

FN - In parts from page 6-17, 80/10/10 By Dr. Douglas Graham

I am also reminded of the fact that carnivores generally will eat the fluid rich organ parts of an animal first, before eating the flesh and bones. When humans eat animals, they will generally eat the muscle meat and bones, which lacks in nutrition in comparison.

The China Study also cites numerous references and studies in regards to how intact the nutrients are in plant foods, and how a low protein, low fat plant based diet is the most beneficial health-wise.

In spite of everything above which is totally IMO, it is always good to find what personally works for us. Many doctors like to say "keep doing what you are doing" when they see improvments - so it looks like you found what you needed.
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Old 11-13-2007   #4
slink Female
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hi everyone,

thanks so much for the comments. i sincerely need the discussion around this without subjecting myself to too much confrontation and intensity

today has been a little weird. i feel sad. maybe the sadness of the animal, maybe i ate too much...i think i did when i went back for seconds

it does feel very animalistic the whole experience and not the same level of consciousness of eating plant materials

it feels slightly savage and aggresive and for the amount of animal protein i like to eat to feel well enough to work out 10 hours a week, i realize there is no way i will be able to consume raw meat to that degree

since i don't eat beef I wonder if lamb and buffalo can be cooked like tartare or ceviche....without heating

i guess jerky in the dehydrator? but generally dehydrated foods have an awful effect for me

i think i just may need to cook it all and eat some very rare or occasionally eat some raw

thanks again, i really appreciate the support, slink
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Old 11-13-2007   #5
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I don't have any advice Slink, but I'm very glad you started this topic. It's one that I've been debating as I do this liver cleanse. I will be adding back foods shortly and I'm not entirely sure what I want to add back. I know I need higher levels of protein than i can get from a plant based diet. I just am a little unsure about whether I want to add cooked animal protein or raw animal protein or try to find my protien from some other source that will be enough. I have a few days to figure it out, and it won't be the first thing I add back anyway. I only eat poultry, lamb, and fish. Occasionally shellfish, but I try really hard not to consume bottomfeeders. Living on the East Coast it has been something that is a strong part of our diet, so it's a struggle for me.

If nothing else, keep me posted Slink, I'm interested in where you decide to go with this.....

Melissa
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Old 11-14-2007   #6
slink Female
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thanks melissa

i know if anything comes from this at least it is the willingness to be the guinea pig....i have been searching for some kind of information and discussion on this in the raw community and it is really hard to find

too taboo?? i know that a lot of people are doing it according to the ONE person who i know who has a lot of experience with it

but maybe they also are afraid to draw negative attention to themselves.

we'll see how it goes like i said it has been a strange day....but i did eat like 4 cloves of garlic this morning with the meat and i think that might have something to do with it

i'll definitely keep you posted and thanks for the encouragement
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Old 11-14-2007   #7
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Slink, may I ask, are you going off blood work or some other kind of indication that is showing your lack of nutrients?
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Old 11-14-2007   #8
slink Female
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hi double h

the only thing i test positive for is hypo thyroid and some hefty imbalances in my gut flora

nutrient wise for exercising/energy i think it is a matter of constitution. i was a very competitve athlete as a child, won state swimming competitions played team sports 3 seasons a year....when i became a vegetarian at age 15 that all immediately stopped

when i added meat 3 years ago, within six months i did an 800 mile bike trip in less then ten days and have been consistently exercising again for the first time since high school

this summer when i went raw without meat.....all that stopped again when i added meat, i was back at the gym everyday
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Old 11-14-2007   #9
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Hi Slink,

The problem with experimenting on yourself is keeping the study clean. Sadness might be caused by many different factors. Like you said, how you felt today might also be affected by garlic or overeating. It's not easy to keep the rest of the factors stable while experimenting on yoruself, but it's very important!

The mind of a human is a complex thing and emotions like sadness can be generated from so many sources. It might not have come right from the animal but from your ideas about eating that animal. If you eat cooked meat usually, I don't see how the sadness would suddenly be generated just because the animal was not cooked. The life was taken anyway, and if you were feeling the spirit of the animal, it would stand to reason that you would have felt that of a dead animal whether cooked or not. You might have judgments about eating raw meat that are coming up - or perhaps you were sad that you hadn't gotten what you needed before, or perhaps your body has enough energy to allow the sadness to come up as in a detox. I wouldn't jumpt to any conclusions about where that sadness was coming from so quickly. You might be right, but then, you might not - unless of course this was a real strong feeling/intuition you had. That's a whole different story.

No one seems to be talking about eggs!!!! Eggs are a perfect protein. It's the protein by which all other proteins are judged. Also, as someone once said to me, an egg is a short term project for a bird, whereas chicken meat is a life commitment on behalf of the chicken!

I've owned birds and eggs come and go and many birds lay them all the time even if not fertilized. I find raw eggs extremely digestable. They don't have quite the same issues as raw meat for many people and their digestion. You don't have to kill anything, you can just use those apposable thumbs to grab the egg and break it open!

DH, your list was quite impressive, although some things weren't pertinent and one thing at least is not correct - my dogs can bury bones with meat on them, dig them up a month later, worms and bugs and all, eat them, and never get sick. Carnivores can handle things that would sound absolutely disgusting to us and would make us deathly ill. But all the same, a very interesting list. If you go to Raw Guru's question about why we eat raw, I wrote out something that I think you might find interesting.

All the same, think about humans eating twinkies