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05-06-2006
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#11
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Administrator
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Location: Tampa, FL
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| Posts:
228
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| Karma +/- Power:
10 |
Karma:
(10) |
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Interview with a Breatharian
1. What is a breatharian?
It is a person who does not need to ingest any
kind of food, be it in either solid or liquid state
for physical sustenance since the body has re-learnt
to derive its sustenance from its natural
surroundings. More on that in the answers that
follow...
[b]2. How ol
Last edited by RawGuru : 05-07-2006 at 02:13 AM.
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There have been many people who have claimed to have this ability but many have been proven to be frauds. The "sungazer group" is run by an Indian guy who stared into the sun in increasing amounts over time. He has been studied by doctors for long periods, but all the doctors have the same religious faith that is very intent on doing no living being harm and therefore have a strong bias. He also lost 90 pounds right out the gate. The one thing that makes me believe that this woman is a fraud is that she says that everyone can do such a thing. Either she is naive, stupid or simply not telling the truth. Perhaps there could be a naive or stupid breatharian, but I doubt it somehow. It's not necessarily true that no one can do it, but to claim that "anyone" can do it is ridiculous even if just based upon how many people are in institutions for lack of mental or emotional stability. Since this "interview" gives no names, no scientific backing and the person does not offer herself for even questions, there is no basis whatsoever for my believing it. There is a woman facing criminal charges because two of her followers died from starvation and when she was put in a room by herself to test her the doctors called it off because she was becoming endangered of dying herself. I would hate for someone here to believe this and starve themselves. If you believe that eating is a thought form that can be surpassed it does not mean that you have to believe a stranger's account of it without verification. If you (reader) should have a transformative experience where you are no longer hungry, lose no weight, have lots of energy, no longer move your bowels and no longer need to eat please tell us about it here on the board, don't hide behind an interview that no one would have any reason to believe as truth... and then.... put yourself under lock and key and under guard long enough for us to believe you, otherwise, be careful of the minds that you might influence to take unnecessary chances with their health.
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I agree with you Greenbunny. I am pretty much open to a lot of different ideas--but if we weren't supposed to eat and drink then I don't think we would have been created with the ability to eliminate waste...and I'm not just talking elimination through bowel movements and urination. We eliminate waste through breathing and through sweating too. And why do we have teeth? And why do we have saliva? And why do we have intestines? And a stomach with special acids to break down food? Our bodies appear to have been designed to both take in and eliminate. Every part of our body seems wired to transport nutrients and eliminate waste.The beating of our hearts, the amazing cleansing ability of the liver. The body appears to have been most definately designed to eat. Not just the human body but every living creature was designed this way. If eating food was just an addictve unhealthy habit of the human race--then why do all living things eat? I read a disturbing breatharian web site (found the link from here) where the person describes a breatharian who gets to the point of either crossing over (dying) or remaining alive and they choose to die because it is so beautiful. Very very dangerous stuff to put out there. There is a very powerful ruler alive today ( I won't mention his name nor the country) but he keeps his people very poor and very ignorant while he lives with every modern luxury available to man. His followers believe that he lives how they live. I would hope that this Breatharian at the very least actually practices what she is preaching and not secretly drinking her daily "glass of distilled water" loaded with liquid vitamins-while innocent people seeking longevity are killing themselves following what she says. A person may not need to eat to have energy---but our cells are constantly dying and being replaced. If we don't consume anything and we have used up all of our stored supplies then how does our body create more cells? And does this person have hair and fingernails? How is that possible without consuming protein? Also, if she is drinking water than wouldn't that mean she is not a true breatharian?
Gypsie mama
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I would like to think that these people who got sick and or were starving tried to go off foods too quickly. It took the interviewee years of slowly decreasing their intake to get where he or she is at now.
Also, we shouldn't forget the human capacity to evolve. We aren't doomed to be in this present state, and that should be a refreshing thought. Despite years of vice, our species has the power to rise above old ways of being and thinking, but that choice has to be made by the individual. Once we lose the fear, hesitation and skepticism, this decision becomes much easier to make.
At least that's what I feel about the subject.
-Mike
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I for one do not say that it is impossible - I actually believe that it is possible even if just based on E=Mc2. I aspire to it. What I do not condone are simplistic non-logical statements unverified by others that could cause serious harm to followers if naively believed and acted on without prudence. If your body no longer needs food because of your evolution, why would you have to starve it slowly over time? Wouldn't the desire for food wane slowly or abruptly (as some have said it has) without the loss of weight or the needs for force? Wouldn't your energy levels stay the same or increase? Wouldn't this be easily verified by putting someone under surveillance 100% of the time for a period as short as 3 - 4 months? Just because one doesn ??t need food it does not stand to logic that one would necessarily not need water, but it does make one question why if one can go without food one couldn ??t just as easily go without water.
There is only one case that I have read of with a man (Prahlad Jani ?? an Indian - a Sufi fakir) that has been watched closely that survived without water and food for 10 days that made for physiological proof as humans are not supposed to be able to survive 10 days without water. It was the only case I have ever read of that had any validity to it but still his weight did drop during the 10 days even though he claims to have gone without food decades. It would be fabulous if that test could be performed a second time (perhaps for a longer period) for verification with different testers. The sungazer guy is a sixty-four-year-old retired Indian mechanical engineer named Hira Ratan Manek. He is a Jain - Jainism is a religion that is quite extremist believing so strongly in ahisma ?? doing no harm to any living being ?? that some Jains won ??t walk around in fear of accidently stepping on an insect and other extremities of caution are taken with food intake in fear of killing bacteria by some Jains. He was watched by Jains and Jain doctors examined him. I can ??t believe that they didn ??t want very much to prove that the ideals of Jainism were possible as they were represented in Manek and hence they were biased. Manek was not watched closely enough in my opinion and moved all around and stayed at people's homes. He lost a lot of weight during the experiment. He also sells CDs and videos and gets the great reward of being regarded as a guru.
There have been many so-called breatharians that when put to the test fail and many that say that they only eat just a little bit of certain items like coffee or candy. How suspicious is that?! Even the interviewee said at the end of her interview, "and do not forget some self-lenience now and then ?? ?? What does that mean exactly? Many breatharians say they will eat just for entertainment or to fit in with others, not because they actually need it. Hogwash says my skeptical mind. That is what the woman who was responsible for the deaths (Jasmuheen) said, but when tested was unable to go without food for any prolonged amount of time. We won ??t even talk about Wiley Brooks who will compassionately charge you only 15 million dollars to teach you how to be a breatharian and eats big macs and cokes to balance his light body. Either he has a very good sense of humor or is insane.
If breatharianism is possible (which I hold my mind open to) my plea is for people not to do anything foolish based upon totally unverified claims. Trying to eat all raw food to see if it does do what you expect and what many people claim to be their experience is a no-brainer in my opinion. It makes so much logical sense and can be tested with no harm to oneself or others. To test out starving yourself slowly to see if you can stop being hungry or can live off of air or the sun ??s rays, or to ask someone else to do this, is irresponsible imho ?? even if it is just an experiment on yourself if you have anyone at all that cares about you. If you truly have evolved into a new order of human, why would you say that anyone can evolve so and expect to be believed and why would you expect to be believed if you do not put yourself under scrutiny and pass simple tests?
Just because we are obviously designed to eat food just like all other mammals does not necessarily preclude the possibility that the next step in human evolution is not possibly the absorption of energy from other sources. I will grant that. Plants do get there energy without eating. We wouldn ??t be the only beings on the planet that didn ??t eat if such a state was our next step in evolution. The issue is, if this has already taken place in some humans, why is it not proven when to prove it would be so easy?
I should mention that James Randy, a skeptic of the paranormal, and his followers, have offiered a one million dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power. A breatharian (I can ??t remember the name at present) made an appeal to be tested. The breatharian and Randy could not come to an agreement as to testing criteria, but really, it came down to the fact that James Randy thought it to be impossible and simply refused to test him.
I will declare right now that when I become a breatharian or pranarian I will set myself up for 4 months in a beautiful secure place and make myself available to be surrounded by skeptics and believers 24 hours a day so that all can verify what I say. It ??s so easy to verify such claims that if anyone claiming to be a breatharian refuses to undergo testing they beg the question, why?
Now, there might be some quiet breatharians out there that do not want the lime-light, that want to be left in peace and are not claiming that anyone else can do this, that aren ??t selling anything, or causing anyone any harm or disquiet. This might well be, but we can ??t know that. All we can go by as to whether this can really be achieved is the open claims of such people as this interviewee. She might very well be a breatharian. What I am saying is that I have absolutely no reason what-so-ever to believe her claims unless she undergoes scrutiny by skeptics. What makes me believe that it is even less likely that she is actually evolved to another form of human, is that she says that such evolution can be achieved by ANYONE by starving themselves slowly. Shame on her. There are many gullible people out there and to say such things in a public forum is in my opinion reprehensible.
Greenbunny
Last edited by greenbunny : 12-03-2007 at 07:20 PM.
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I hope you aren't assuming that I or anyone else is claiming to be 'more evolved' than anyone. I'm sorry if that wording confused, but all I meant was we had the capacity to, as a species.
In my humble opinion, if saying that makes any difference, we must choose this option and not sit around waiting to feel something happen. I feel that it would take a vast collective consciousness, and that today we are no where near what it would need to be. I think that knowing it is a choice is the most important part of it.
I'm glad that you do personally believe that it could happen, and I agree with your criticisms of money hungry 'gurus'. I do feel though.. that your repeated use of the word starve is pulling at emotions. If you look at it as starving yourself, you will starve. And it does seem that some of those you mentioned for some reason advocated that practice. It seems like it would take a complete mind and body transformation to achieve this state of being, which can only be done over long periods of time, constantly learning new things and reaffirming your beliefs. If one does tell them self they are being starved, that may just be something they need to overcome with their attitude.
I don't understand your, pardon the strong word, obsession with needing proof. You do seem somewhat angry with all the imitators who give it a bad name, and it seems that you would only want to prove this to people, not for the money, but to spite everyone who did it wrong or didn't believe. While that would work in converting many skeptics to a cause, I can't help but get a feeling that it's in some way driven by the ego. I'm not here to judge anyone, and I'm certainly not going to judge you based on any of this. I'm merely responding to what you have written, and I appreciate you bringing up legitimate points of concern. I feel that we're on the same page, but have different concerns for a similar goal.
-Mike
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As far as I know Mike, you never claimed to be a breatharian, nor have you suggested to anyone directly that they start to force themselves to stop eating in order to gain to such an ability but you only hinted at what the interviewee said so I made no reference to you in my statements just to your belief of what the interviewee said. I am questioning why you or anyone else would believe such an interview. Whether you believe that we can evolve as a species or as individuals was not an issue for me at all. I trust that we can and will myself. My whole point is that one can believe that it is possible in theory without necessarily believing any one individual without demonstration.
Jasmuheen has made such claims as to her evolution and the people that believed her believed whole-heartedly in her and that they could do it. They, I'm sure, repeated to themselves over and over and over again that they could live on air like she said that they could and they still died of.... starvation. When you stop eating long enough and die the proper terminology would be “starve”. It is true that I get upset when people manipulate other people into such dangerous games for the benefit of themselves when they themselves cannot pass even the most simple logical tests as to the truth of their claims. If you cannot go for a prolonged period without eating yourself you have no right to be telling others to do so when it could end in tragedy as it has already for those two poor people that died. If you go around saying to people that anyone can do it they might just believe you if they have a feeble mind - when logically that statement makes absolutely no sense. There are many mentally and emotionally disabled people that would believe such a statement without even the slightest ability to be able to accomplish it even if it was a demonstrated reality by a few special individuals.
Many people believe that it is the problem of the poor sucker what happens to them if they are so stupid to believe tall tales. Con artists are like that. I believe that it is the responsiblity of the con artist when they make people believe them and the believers are hurt or destroyed. I do get very upset when people are duped by people like that. Perhaps you are right and it is righteous anger. I feel the same way about dictatorships, racism, anti-semitism and sexism as I do about con artists.
When I mentioned the term guru it was about one individual that is considered a spirtual guru in his Jain community because of his spiritual development that is assumed based on his breatharianism. I guess the others might consider themselves gurus of sorts. I don't know.
Why do you assume that becoming a breatharian can only be achieved over long periods? You say this because some woman that you don't even know really exists said it over the internet. I read an account many years ago of a woman who said that she became a breatharian after Spirit taught her some pranayama exercises and it happened over night. She lost no weight and just poof.... suddenly stopped eating. That's sounds much more plausible to me as plausibility goes.
If you are going to eventually just live on prana, would not your system slowly be attuned more and more to prana by meditation, or energetic transformation, regardless of what you are eating - until suddenly food is no longer needed? You see, until someone really proves that they can do this by simple means more than just words on the internet or in a book, you and I have no reason to believe that it needs to be done in any particular way. It might be possible, but why is the way that someone says you should do it to be taken seriously when there is no reason to believe that they have done it at all? I do truly believe that it is a possiblity as there are more things in heaven and earth, so forth and so on, a la Shakepeare, and I myself have experienced many miracles in my life and I would never say to you or anyone else what you should believe as possible – but I would caution anyone reading this to think logically and question a stranger’s motives and truthfullness.
So you say that I am an egoist obessessed with proof. OK. I'll grant you that. I do consider it to be a judgment on your part, but perhaps it is true - although obsessed is quite a strong word to use for someone you don’t know. I do honor my mind as well as my Spirit and like to think that I can have faith and intelligent discernment at the same time. I do have a very strong ego that runs my logical brain and since there is not one person that has actually gone through a simple demonstration in this country that what they claim is true I will caution others not to be ego-less - otherwise known as insane (insane people do not have strong ego structures and therefore do not have a strong enough sense of self to question illogic or recognize reality) and to please not to act on mere suggestions and STARVE themselves. If you stop eating because you think you can do this because someone has said so on the internet, I strongly caution you to THINK!!!! Anyone can claim anything. They do it all the time.
I have been interested in this subject for a very long time and have been following cases over the years. There have been countless claims and countless proofs that they were simply lying. I do want someone to come forth and show me that they can actually do this and that THEY are not the egotist or con artist wanting some weird gratification from being thought to be able to do something miraculous or a way to make money off of gullible people. This person I would then want to meet, to converse with, to study with, to learn from.
Mike, I must sadly disagree with you – I believe that we are very different pages. When you say that we can’t just sit around and wait for something to happen, it sounds like you are also condoning the gradually eating less and less until you die or become a breatharian approach.
Just like the person in the interview, I am someone you don't know at all. Since it was an interview written by someone and not even a direct statement by an individual it might have been an exercise in writing and fiction. I at least have been posting here a while in the same vain, so you at least know that I am a person. I will give you a completely different and just as plausible way to go about approaching living off energy instead of food. Tell yourself that you can, over and over and over again in constant affirmation, meditate and/or pray, bring energy into your body on a daily basis, if youa believe it will help look at the sun or run around barefoot like the sun guy says to do and then wait for a strong indication that you are ready and then expect that when you no longer need food you you will no longer be hungry - like other people have claimed happened to them. If you stop being hungry then stop eating and if you lose weight, get sick or weak or start to get dizzy or hungry or anyone tells you that you are looking sickly, then assume that you were not really ready and start again. This way, makes more sense. You can change your belief systems, you can bring in more prana into your body, you can transform yourself with thought instead of cutting yourself off from the common sustenance. Until someone actually demonstrates that they are truly able to live without food this approach makes more sense if it's really about mind over matter This way you take no chances with your life and limb in the process. You might waste a lot of time and energy if it doesn’t work…. but it won’t kill you if you’re wrong. Unless of course you believe that you are never wrong and insist on going ahead against all indications that it isn't working. That would be another hurdle of course. No amount of cautioning will help a person that believes that they are never wrong.
Greenbunny
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Please don't put words in my mouth. I made it quite clear that none of what I said was in any way a personal attack on you, but you still chose to get defensive. I realize that obsessed is a strong word, and I thought I was polite enough to make note of that so you didn't have to. Nevertheless, you took offense when there was no need.
I'm curious as to why you would believe something you read when that is exactly what you're advising people not to do. A miracle overnight breatharian sounds more plausable to you than someone who spent years working towards it? What made this source so credible? I mean, I believe that it did happen.. but how could a skeptic like you believe in such a claim? Wouldn't hearing something like this only encourage more of what you seem to fear the most?
I was hoping to keep things light and friendly, but unfortunately you chose to make a big issue about this. I'm not suggesting anyone to do anything, and I'm not claiming to know or have any experience with any of these subjects. If I have indeed made any unforgivable comments, please let me know and I'll get rid of my account here and move on with my life.
-Mike
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I've seen and read some breatharian stuff before and IMO it isn't something that is natural for a human to do.
Yes we will debate on end what "kind" of food is ideal for human consumption and what "kind" of drink or water but I think we can all agree that the human body requires calories in the edible form of carbohydrates fats and protein.
It's highly unlikely that the body can use elements from the air to create sustainance this way, even the breatharians admit to their indulgences "biscuits and tea" is what I recall one of them eating. Why not a fresh lovely mango? Or a banana?
If the human body was meant to thrive without any kind of food or drink, why would human mothers produce breast milk for their children? And why do babies fail to thrive when they don't get their mother's (or equivelant) milk?
Yes, one can go with little food or fast for long periods of time, but they are subsisting on their own body reserves and sooner or later those reserves will run dangerously low, hence their little indulgences here and there. Their brains are telling them to replenish their supply.
That's my opinion on it. I haven't read all the responses - especially yours Green Bunny, they are too long for me!!! So this is not directed at anyone in particular, just addressing the subject matter.
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Summary For Double Helix
Did you meant to "not" natural in your post DH?
Just for you DH I will summarize what I wrote:
There is no reason to believe anyone who says that they are a breatharian without simple proofs - especially since there hasn't been one Westerner out of many claiments that has passed simple tests (there might be one Indian Sufi, but that is uncertain because he did lose weight). I talked about many individual cases. There is even less reason to believe that "anyone can do it". This is an utterly ridiculous thing to say and brings even more doubt to other claims.
I hold my mind open to anything being possible and holding one's mind open is a beautiful thing and species do evolve in often strange ways. There's no telling what our next evolutionary step is. It could be radically different than what we obvioulsy need now. However, believing someone that you don't know (especially over the internet) and starting to starve yourself slowly based on such unverified claims makes no sense. People have died already because they believed fully in someone's claims that they had become a breatharian and believed unflinchingly that they could do so too because she told them they could. When the original claimant was tested, she failed.
Put simply - it's silly to believe everything you hear or read, but keeping your mind open to wonders and miracles keeps you open to experiences beyond what the world sees as possible. You can have an open spiritual faith and use your intellectual discernment at the same time. Until someone actually proves that they have accomplished this there is no reason to believe the process that they dictate to you for accomplishing it - especially if it dangerous.
There have been claimants that say they have used spiritual means to become breatharians suddenly with no starvation, never losing a pound and only gaining in energy. It seems more prudent to believe them than to believe someone who says that you should starve yourself slowly and that anyone can do it.
I am trying to be the voice of reason for those that might read this that aren't thinking clearly. I am saying simply: Don't starve yourself based upon unverified claims.
Greenbunny
Last edited by greenbunny : 12-05-2007 at 10:00 PM.
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My response to Mike in 2 parts
Mike, we seem to have two very different communication (or perhaps interpretive) styles. I will try to make myself clearer.
I have taken nothing you said personally - I don't know you and you don ??t know me. You do not hurt my feelings nor am I the least bit upset with you or anything you said. Like I said in the post that you responded to: you have not suggested to anyone that they do anything dangerous and are making no claims yourself - you just seem to believe someone that IS saying to do something potentially dangerous. I am merely questioning that. Perhaps you misread what I wrote. That happens. I tend to believe that a conversation can be fertive and friendly at the same time. I have felt nothing but friendly. I ??m very sorry if I have said anything that has made you feel unfriendly or any other uncomfortable emotion.
Perhaps I should ask you straight out if you believe what the interviewee said and if you are going to start to try to wean yourself off food because of it? If your answer is yes, then perhaps more of what I have said would be pertinent to you, but I was directing most of my statements to the general issue, not to you.
I guess I do think this is a big issue.. at least for me. I ??m a raw foodist, have been for a very long time, and I do approach it logically. This is a raw food site where someone (not you Mike!) is suggesting for others to stop eating. I strongly disagree with that suggestion and want anyone reading it to know that such a suggestion has no relationship to raw foodism what-so-ever except that it has something to do with food. I also do not take lightly someone taking spiritual or alternative ideas and using them for their own benefit at the expense of others. I have a real issue with that. I have seen it so many times. It makes everything alternative or Spiritual look bad by association. It makes me want to stand up and shout ?? Stop making us all look bad and stop hurting people!!! I can get intense about such things. It ??s not directed at you Mike. It never has been. I was talking about the inteview.
I did respond to some of the things that you said about me. If you call my responding to what you say defensive, well then perhaps in your terms I was but I also think that you didn ??t read what I said very carefully. I can understand that ?? I type fast and wrote a lot.
I ??ll try to clear it up:
I would not believe any claimant until they pass simple tests.
If I were to choose to believe one (which I do not) and act upon their suggestions (which I won ??t) I would pick the one that suggested things that weren't potentially dangerous. I was trying to set forth to someone who wants to believe this without verification, that they COULD believe either, so why not choose the one without hazard?
Btw, the account that I read about this person was more credible in my estimation because she was kept separate in one room for long periods with no food under guard to prove herself and there were signed statements to the affect. This was a very long time ago in Europe so it can ??t be verified completely, but was one of the most convincing accounts that I have come across.
When you used the word obsessive I was AGREEING WITH YOU that it was a strong word for for you to use with someone that you didn't know. I happen to disagree with you that I am obsessed with proof and so would anyone who has actually known me more than a very short time. I can disagree with your ev | |
